Homeowner group OKs $4,000 yard art fine | HeraldTribune.com: "LAKEWOOD RANCH - Two metal poodles and several small seashells decorating Summerfield resident Joani Ellis' front yard are still costing her $50 a day
Facing nearly $4,000 in fines, Ellis appealed the penalties to the Summerfield/Riverwalk Homeowner Association on Thursday night.
But the board did not budge on their stance that Ellis is breaking a neighborhood rule that allows only three lawn decorations."
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Take a look at the picture and tell me this is something her neighbors have any business even talking about, much less imposing fines.
Fred Pilot sent this link.
18 comments:
Thanks for the Post Evan.
I have alot of support here, but it will be a long process.
check out www.lakewoodranchhoahell.com
Cheers,
Joani Ellis
Ridiculous. Plus, it appears that the shells are all part of a single piece (they look like they are attached to a grate of some kind), so wouldn't they count as one piece? If you are counting, that is. And I've yet to see any evidence that someone having >3 lawn decorations affects property values.
perfect solution..."only three lawn decorations" = 2 poodles + 1 shell (but make the shell the size of the snail-shell from the old Dr. Doolitle movie)
Power-seeking boards are the plague of owners associations. Unfortunately, the corporation model is used which gives the board almost unlimited power to manage the affairs of the corporation. Owners associations are different. Separated and limited powers of the association, board, committees, etc. must be required as are the powers of government separated and limited in the Constitution.
"Separated and limited powers of the association, board, committees, etc. must be required as are the powers of government separated and limited in the Constitution."
As I told George Staropoli, in the context of HOAs, that's like ordering a hamburger in a shoe store. HOAs are governed by private corporations that fall under state corporations codes and NOT government codes. If you want constitutional local government, don't support local politicians who favor local government privatization by requiring all new residential development be in private corporation-governed common interest developments and support those who don't.
Fred, it doesn't have to be that way. There was a time that LLC's weren't authorized by state code.
Owners associations clearly need separate legislation to define governance. It could be called the Property Owners Association Act as it is called in Virginia. There is no reason the governance can't be defined in a POA Act.
There are two important questions here:
(1) Do people really believe that they can change the status quo?
(2) How can a combined effort be organized to define the content of a POA Act that will provide governance of the owners, by the owners, and for the owners.
I have compiled a statement of rights based on many individual "rights" documents available on the internet. See Statement of Rights, which I believe is a required first step. The web page includes many references upon which the Statement was based. What I have written is open for debate and improvement. Let's work on obtaining a consensus.
…The association had a lawyer present…
Did the lawyer present advise the Board of the meaning of arbitrary enforcement, statute of limitations, abandonment, estoppel and selective enforcement ? Did he/she advise the Board of the possible economic impact upon the HOA if litigation was started and most important of the economic impact upon the HOA if they lose ? What should a Board do if the attorney present recommends enforcement of a rule/CC&R that seems to be contradictory to State statute or other laws ?
It’s appropriate to enforce the rules when a complaint has been formally filed but in the world of housing associations that’s often were the fireworks begin. Because of Poorly crafted and unnecessary rules/ CC&Rs which are often the root cause of the disputes between Boards and members. Instead of trying to amend or delete a rule/CC&R that is unnecessary, unenforceable, obsolete or of any practical “mutual benefit.”
My two cents: common interest housing is here to stay. There is no chance of local governments taking back these responsibilities, nor is there any chance that states will force municipalities to do that. And there is little chance that the courts will decide to hold them accountable under the US or state constitutions (although I think they should in some cases). The best you are going to get is state reform legislation aimed at making CIDs operate a bit more like local governments in their most important activities: elections, meetings, record access, disclosure, assessment collection and foreclosure, architectural review, etc.
I'd like to see a state law guaranteeing that if you have to fight your HOA and you win, the HOA has to pay your lawyer. That would help to create a pro-homeowner bar.
Other than that, using the press to get the word out about the outrageous actions of some boards (like what happened to Joani Ellis) is probably the most effective thing to do. Often boards back down when the light of publicity hits them. They count on getting you isolated and beating you down in private.
"They count on getting you isolated and beating you down in private." And, this is exactly why innocent people who owed nothing, or, no one are homeless!
Evan,
You are painting a very bleak picture here.
I do agree with you that states are not going to force municipalities to do their jobs but I think what is happening in residential America is a case of the tail wagging the dog. People need to take back what is rightfully theirs. They are being fleeced by local governments, their HOAs, and the multibillion dollar annual industry that feeds at their trough. At the very bottom of the pile is the owner who is harassed, abused, fined, threatened, run over, sued, mocked and generally made miserable. They are scared, frustrated and in some cases at their wits end. This is not normal nor is it a healthy environment to live and raise a family in.
You said: “I'd like to see a state law guaranteeing that if you have to fight your HOA and you win, the HOA has to pay your lawyer. That would help to create a pro-homeowner bar.”
We have that in Virginia – at least the prevailing party is entitled to costs and “reasonable” fees. We’ve had it for years but we also continue to have the abuses.
The problem is the money comes from either the insurance or the “collective” pot – if there is anything in there. The people who are directly responsible get off scot free.
I also agree with you that shining a bright light on the abuses was/is effective and necessary but it doesn’t seem to have any long term, real benefit for HOA denizens. I have a room full of articles and stories going back over a decade. I believe that they are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what is happening out there in Privatopia. The down side to all the exposure is that people seem to get desensitized to the horror stories; they just shrug their shoulders and say something stupid like, “Well, they agreed otherwise why would they buy into an HOA?” Right! How many people willingly agree to be abused, run over or driven over the edge? The other brilliant quip I hear is, “Well, they must have done something to deserve it.”
Let us face it, HOAs were NEVER intended FOR the owner, legislation without proper enforcement does nothing to protect the owners and as you said, the courts are not protecting the owners either but worshipping at the altar of the “contract”. The only viable option left is people power.
Evan,
You are painting a very bleak picture here.
I do agree with you that states are not going to force municipalities to do their jobs but I think what is happening in residential America is a case of the tail wagging the dog. People need to take back what is rightfully theirs. They are being fleeced by local governments, their HOAs, and the multibillion dollar annual industry that feeds at their trough. At the very bottom of the pile is the owner who is harassed, abused, fined, threatened, run over, sued, mocked and generally made miserable. They are scared, frustrated and in some cases at their wits end. This is not normal nor is it a healthy environment to live and raise a family in.
You said: “I'd like to see a state law guaranteeing that if you have to fight your HOA and you win, the HOA has to pay your lawyer. That would help to create a pro-homeowner bar.”
We have that in Virginia – at least the prevailing party is entitled to costs and “reasonable” fees. We’ve had it for years but we also continue to have the abuses.
The problem is the money comes from either the insurance or the “collective” pot – if there is anything in there. The people who are directly responsible get off scot free.
I also agree with you that shining a bright light on the abuses was/is effective and necessary but it doesn’t seem to have any long term, real benefit for HOA denizens. I have a room full of articles and stories going back over a decade. I believe that they are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what is happening out there in Privatopia. The down side to all the exposure is that people seem to get desensitized to the horror stories; they just shrug their shoulders and say something stupid like, “Well, they agreed otherwise why would they buy into an HOA?” Right! How many people willingly agree to be abused, run over or driven over the edge? The other brilliant quip I hear is, “Well, they must have done something to deserve it.”
Let us face it, HOAs were NEVER intended FOR the owner, legislation without proper enforcement does nothing to protect the owners and as you said, the courts are not protecting the owners either but worshipping at the altar of the “contract”. The only viable option left is people power.
Evan,
You are painting a very bleak picture here.
I do agree with you that states are not going to force municipalities to do their jobs but I think what is happening in residential America is a case of the tail wagging the dog. People need to take back what is rightfully theirs. They are being fleeced by local governments, their HOAs, and the multibillion dollar annual industry that feeds at their trough. At the very bottom of the pile is the owner who is harassed, abused, fined, threatened, run over, sued, mocked and generally made miserable. They are scared, frustrated and in some cases at their wits end. This is not normal nor is it a healthy environment to live and raise a family in.
You said: “I'd like to see a state law guaranteeing that if you have to fight your HOA and you win, the HOA has to pay your lawyer. That would help to create a pro-homeowner bar.”
We have that in Virginia – at least the prevailing party is entitled to costs and “reasonable” fees. We’ve had it for years but we also continue to have the abuses.
The problem is the money comes from either the insurance or the “collective” pot – if there is anything in there. The people who are directly responsible get off scot free.
I also agree with you that shining a bright light on the abuses was/is effective and necessary but it doesn’t seem to have any long term, real benefit for HOA denizens. I have a room full of articles and stories going back over a decade. I believe that they are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what is happening out there in Privatopia. The down side to all the exposure is that people seem to get desensitized to the horror stories; they just shrug their shoulders and say something stupid like, “Well, they agreed otherwise why would they buy into an HOA?” Right! How many people willingly agree to be abused, run over or driven over the edge? The other brilliant quip I hear is, “Well, they must have done something to deserve it.”
Let us face it, HOAs were NEVER intended FOR the owner, legislation without proper enforcement does nothing to protect the owners and as you said, the courts are not protecting the owners either but worshipping at the altar of the “contract”. The only viable option left is people power.
Shu, of course you are right on the nature of the problem. But it doesn't make any difference what people "should" do or "need" to do. The issue is what they actually do, and what they don't do. They don't read their CC&Rs, they don't organize, they don't fight back. They do watch American Idol and Dancing With the Stars, and they do go along to get along. We can't even get a national organization of owners to take off. The activists are busily blackballing each other from their newsgroups and calling each other names. Anybody who tries to accomplish anything in the real world is called an industry stooge. Tell me where all the change is going to come from.
Don,
it does have to be that way. POAs are a cancer that needs to be eradicated.
With respect to point 1) yes, people can change the "status quo" and have been doing so for a long time. Consider Rosa Parks and her predecessors as just one example. Laws/policies mandating involuntary membership HOAs are similar to Jim Crow laws in the context of segregation. The segregation is geography rather than race based. You may recall that Jim Crow
With respect to point 2) "Governance" by a private corporation is a non sequitur. All you are doing is creating more tangles to be privately administered and enforced. There are already documents known as the federal and state Constitutions that define governance of the people, by the people, for the people. Such governance is by political subdivisions of the state, not public-private "partnerships" between the citizens and the state whereby the state imposes unlawful "ordinances" that somehow gain lawfulness when enforced by the private corporation and a private corporation that is used to effectively deny homeowners fundamental rights, equal protection, right to vote, due process, right to confront your accuser, etc. with respect to the city.
Don't even bother with suggesting that you are attempting to change that by adopting more privatization. Reforming POAs is a Fool's Errand.
The change will come from the collapse.
The housing may be here to stay (and that's questionable with all the construction defect litigation over the past two decades), but public policy is dynamic and by definition subject to change. And lack of change in the past due to lack of organized activism doesn't necessarily predict the future. As Shu alludes, people have the power to elect officials at the state and especially the local level that don't favor policy favoring local government privatization and not support those who do.
But they first have to recognize HOA "horror stories" like these and abusive, frivolous litigation that often accompanies them are ultimately products of that policy. It's not a matter of "reforming" it or making it better. The question is whether local government privatization should be continued as public policy.
Innocent homeowners are tired of being bullied, lied about fraudulently fined, assessed, sued, etc. at the hands of some absolutely horrible board membes and their associates. Where does an innocent homeowner go? To everyone, yet no one who says they will do "something," does nothing, from my experience, for the homeowner. For every case against any homeowner, within one of these groups, there needs to be an external, very public investigation, to weed out the vendettas, frauds, property thefts, terrorizing, harassment, bullying, lies and lack of justice that has been allowed to "become the norm," in many locales, it appears.
Many of these groups behaviors can be more easily understood by reading, "The Bully, The Bullied and The Bystander," by Barbara Coloroso. Quite, timely!
In my opinion, the "twisted," sense of entitlement over others, some of these sociopathic, abusive board members and their hired talent exhibit, is criminal and should be prosecuted as such!
Mr. McKenzie is painting a "very bleak picture here" because the picture IS bleak. Furthermore, contrary to what Mr. McKenzie says ie, "common interest housing is here to stay" I contend that it is not sustainable, and is n-o-t here to stay. If anything, the CID industries have ruined that so-called "shared-living" concept across the USA. It will never return to what it once was, it will never return to what it could have been. We are witnessing the beginning of the end. Pick a lane McKenzie.
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