Canyon Lake plans to use federal funds to refurbish condos | Riverside County | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California: "Canyon Lake is seeking up to $1.2 million in federal funds to purchase and refurbish up to eight condominiums now in foreclosure so they can be resold to first-time homebuyers.
Council members voted 4-0 Wednesday to apply for a portion of the $48 million in neighborhood stabilization funds made available by the Bush administration and offered through Riverside County."
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This works to the benefit of the other condo unit owners. I realize that could be said of fixing up any house in any neighborhood, but with a condo we are talking about improving a collectively owned property. The only individual interest is an airspace.
12 comments:
OMG--I do not believe this is really happening! In my opinion, maybe we should be wondering if
all the "private" victims who have lost years, careers, their homes and had their health, finances, and families devastated by the liars, thieves and thugs in this industry elligible to line up for fed. funds?
A condominium is not "collectively owned" any more than the deceptively marketed "common areas", "common amenities", or "your clubhouse" are.
The condominium structure is owned by the condominium association. There is no collective ownership. The only thing that involuntary members of HOAs and condominium association own is a shared liability which is evidenced by perpetual liens. Involuntary members have no ownership interest in assets belonging to the HOA or condominium association.
You are wrong, comrade. Condominiums are based on the collective apartment building ve built to house the proletariat in the great Soviet Union.
Comrade Colonel Kominsky
Commander
USA Collective Housing Sector, CAI
HOAs own property. Condominium associations do not.
In an HOA the common area is owned by the HOA, and the unit owners have title to their lots.
But a condominium association does not have title to any property. It just manages the building. A condominium building is owned by the unit owners, each of whom has an undivided interest in the common area, which is the whole building minus the "airspaces" that are the individual units.
That is collective ownership of real property.
Perhaps you mean that this is just paper ownership, and the association really has all the perks of ownership because the association directors and their lawyers and managers have all the power. If so, I see your point.
Dr. McKenzie,
I disagree with your comment.
My experience concerning ownership of the conodminium, by the condominium association is that the condo association, does, in fact, have title, own the common elements as described on the plat map; patios, grassy areas, property condo is situated on, building, colective common elements
entry ways, corridors, structure, some common elements, not limited common elements, etc. The individual homeowners are DEEDED boundries, horozontially, vertically, etc., within the confines of the structure owned by the condo. I have had way too many horrible, devastating, costly experiences with the entire mess, not to mention the fraud, targeting, lies, harassment, discrimination, property damage, emotional abuse, criminal financial actions by the associated HOA and their less than credible "associates." An important aspect concerning who owns what is insurance. Even the experts, don't have a clue what they are selling, in many cases.
Good rule of thumb is that no one with any honesty, intelligence, sense of fairnes, or decency should purchase within any of these groups. Even a group that did not have "issues," can turn into the community from hell. Another good piece of advice: watch who manipulates themself on to a board, their profession, their "ties," their "influence,"
their GREED!!! These individuals DESTROY COMMUNITIES. All the above, is my opinion, of course!
My friend, you are mistaken. This is an important fact and I don't want people who read this blog to get confused.
A condominium association does not own the common elements. The unit owners are the owners of the common elements as tenants in common. Their deeds include title to the airspace of their unit, and some percentage of ownership of the common elements. The corporate condominium association manages the common elements on behalf of the owners, and as an owner you have a voting interest in that corporation's affairs.
HOAs, by way of contrast, hold title to the common elements.
Look up the definition of condominium and you will see. For example:
From http://dictionary.law.com
Condominium:
"n. title to a unit of real property which, in reality, is the airspace which an apartment, office or store occupies...The owner of the condominium also owns a common tenancy with owners of other units in the common area, which includes all the driveways, parking, elevators, outside hallways, recreation and landscaped areas, which are managed by a homeowners' or tenant's association."
From http://www.investorwords.com/1020/condominium.html
"A form of property ownership in which each owner holds title to his/her individual unit, plus a fractional interest in the common areas of the multi-unit project."
From http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/condominium.html
"Single, individually-owned housing unit in a multi-unit building. The condominium owner holds sole title to the unit, but owns land and common property (elevators, halls, roof, stairs, etc.) jointly with other unit owners, and shares the upkeep expenses on the common-property with them. Unit owner pays property taxes only on his or her unit, and may mortgage, rent, or sell it just like any other personal property."
Dr. McKenzie,
Thank you for the clarification above. When I have some time, I am going to send you some condo documents, plats, etc., by postal mail. I trust you willl find this interesting. Most importantly, is what has been done to the innocent condo owners by an out of control, criminal HOA Board, who have no ownership rights, etc., and their "friends," seeking some kind of sick power and money.
Best wishes.
Sorry to hear of this situation, but I have to say it no longer surprises me. Sometimes people in charge of an association either do not understand basic matters, or are misinterpreting governing documents or the law. It happens all the time, unfortunately. That's why there has to be some oversight. I worked with one owner in an HOA where the property manager insisted that the law applicable only to condominiums governed their non-condo HOA. Incredible.
Dr. McKenzie,
How about boards and their associates knowingly,
"misinterpreting governing documents or the law," to fabricate legal fees to foreclose?
I have read this time, and time again, as well as know some this has happened to personally. What is their recourse?
Racketeering in HOAs has led to criminal investigations such as recently in Nevada involving the FBI.
Comment #2 in view of #5 did not intend to confuse. The remark of #2 as to HOAs was correct - however it is still possible for the condominium association to own property, for example, when it forecloses on a unit or exercises a right of first refusal.
The remarks as to condominium structures was confusing. As noted by #5, the condominium association does not own the real property - the individual owners own their own airspace exclusively but they own the tangible real estate as tenants in common. However, "ownership" implies legal rights which largely don't exist in condominiums such that ownership on paper does not reflect who exerts dominion over the property owned.
The problem is that "ownership" implies a right of alienability, a right to exclude others, and a right of use and enjoyment. What a condo owner purports to have by a legal deed illustrates ownership on paper. However, the condominium association exerts such control over 1) the common areas, 2) the rights of alienability, exclusion of others, and use and enjoyment as to the individual unit that the word "legal owner" is hardly applicable for a condominium unit unless you are referring only to the liabilities imposed by the condominium documents.
Condominium documents invariably put (and often impose more after you purchase) extreme restrictions on the use and enjoyment of your own area as well as the real estate you own as tenant in common. Thus you don't have the right to use and enjoyment. The condominium documents often give the condominium association the right to enter your unit without your permission - thus you don't have the right to exclude. The condominium documents frequently give the association the first right of refusal on your unit such that you have to give the condominium association the right to purchase your property at a price offered by another. This is a major restraint on alienability.
Some fundamental questions about who owns what and whether a unit is a condominium may come into play when a condominium association forecloses on a unit. However, no need to address that here and now. The point was to show that legal ownership means nothing if all the rights incident to ownership can be alienated from the property.
When a nonowner exerts such control over your property then you really aren't an owner and the condominium association has virtually all the incidences of ownership of YOUR property. Hope that clarifies.
Dear Author Of Comment #11,
Thank you for your detailed explanation. I am going to try to locate source to post our documents (CC&R's) online. Dr. McKenzie and most visitors to the sit will find these most interesting, especially since, another board on the property is foreclosing for fabricated legal fees. Even if monies are not owed, or assessed. This other Board has no ownership rights, maintenance rights, etc. They simply seek to discriminate, harass, terrorize and create undue and unnecessary conflict. I am sure you can figure out why. This is HELL, in case anyone ever wondered how bad any these groups can become!
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