Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Associated Press story coming on HOA violence

Bruce Schreiner of AP is looking for people with specific information on this issue.   
Professor McKenzie:

Thanks so much for taking the time to chat with me. We’re just starting work on a story looking into the pressures of HOA boards and how that strain can turn violent. We want to write a balanced piece from the perspective of board members and aggrieved homeowners.

If you can let folks from both perspectives know we are looking for people to interview for this story, we would greatly appreciate it.

My phone number in the bureau is 502-583-7718. I am working on this project with fellow AP reporter Dylan Lovan in Louisville.


Bruce Schreiner, The Associated Press, Louisville, Ky.


Anonymous Gunowner said...

The gun-lobby claims that the Second Amendment guarantees our right to resist oppressive government.

If HOA corporations are privatized governments, does that argument apply?

What happens if, as a result of violent incidents, HOA corporations start prohibiting their members from owning guns? For example, see here and here and here .

This issue was sort-of-addressed on this blog four years ago, when the Professor coined the phrase "repressive libertarianism"

where certain people who call themselves libertarians invariably
side with property owners who want to limit other people's liberties
through the use of contract law. Property rights (usually held by
somebody with a whole lot of economic clout) trump every other
liberty. The libertarian defense of HOAs is the perfect example.
The developer writes covenants and leaves. Everybody who lives there
has to obey them forever, even if they lose due process of law and
expressive liberties.
As private corporations take over more functions of government, this
position could lead to gradual elimination of constitutional liberties.

Anonymous said...

Examples of HOA violence:

The violence is under-reported. The HOA industry (management companies, HOA attorneys) will proclaim these and the results of their business practices to be "isolated instances".

The stories are endless, but here's a few videos exhibiting HOA violence.

Story I
Moronic HOA board tries to impose offensive restrictions on homeowners' property

HOA melee caught on tape

Story II
Not only are these not voluntary choices - it's very, very clear that this is the work of local government as a public policy. The second video makes it clear that the requirement to have one was a deal between the developer and the county

Here is an archived HOA fight from Jan Bergemann's site
HOA fist fight
HOA forced onto homeowners by county

These folks were understandably opposed to the imposition of an HOA on them and certainly not involuntary assessments for which they can be foreclosed upon. You can bet the HOA attorneys, county, etc. were not supporting the homeowners.
Other related links for this one (from 2007) were archived by Bergemann at
HOA imposed by local government
So much for the theory of "choice" or "demand". Apparently voting is allowed so long as you vote to have an HOA corporation.

Story III
Archived on YouTube:
HOA Attorney threatens homeowners with foreclosure over hedge height - leads to fight

Story IV
HOA board operating their own oppressive "neighborhood" watch gets shot.
Bluffdale man shot while on neighborhood watch

Story V
Does a day go by without mention of the Trayvon Martin case and another HOA "watch" member - Zimmerman? The difference between IV and V is that the victim being stalked was killed in V whereas the father of the victim in IV shot the HOA watch
Zimmerman asks for new judge again

Many more....

R. Paul said...

“Union power, gained by legislation, even without physical violence, is still violence."

quoted in "The Fiscal Times" December 26, 2011
from "Liberty Defined"

Anonymous said...

THe "pressures" are usually deliberately created by the HOA industry players: HOA management companies and HOA attorneys. The more chaos and financial hardship they can cause, the more lucrative things are for the management company and HOA attorney whose compensations are directly tied to creation and maintaining conflict, allegations of "breach", etc.

The videos above were interesting. The forced imposition of an HOA onto homeowners by the county and the mass opposition to an HOA clearly illustrates that HOAs are NOT the result of "demand" - at least not marketing demand from home buyers but rather local government mandate.

How can a reporter write a "balanced" article? There is nothing but overreaching by these boards and their for-profit advisers. How offensive for an HOA board members to actually think they should have the authority to dictate who can live in your house, privately "fine" homeowners as if they were a governmental body, withhold records from the involuntary members of the organization, etc. What is the pretext for such grasps at control over others' properties?

Good luck finding "balance" because there isn't any.

Anonymous Gunowner said...

For some reason, my mind parsed

"Associated Press story coming on HOA violence"


"Associated Press story on the coming HOA violence"

as though the author is expecting a wave of it in the near future.

Back in 2004, the Professor wrote in response to another HOA shooting that

Horrible as it is to say this, I expect more of this sort of thing.
It is getting harder to live outside CIDs because of the tremendous market
dominance of common interest housing in new construction. Of course, nothing
a condo board does would ever justify or excuse this sort of violence,
but they often do things--rightly or wrongly--that send people into a flat spin.
With millions of people getting conscripted into a style of life they don't understand
and accept, the law of averages says that conflict, and often serious conflict,
will result. Most of the time it is just cold stares and lawsuits.
Occasionally something like this happens.

But see also his comments from 2009 :

If not for the Civil War, slavery would have lasted in the South until slave rebellions
ended it. And anybody who thinks the goals of the civil rights movement were not
advanced by urban riots and by the militancy of Malcolm X, Stokely Carmichael, and
others profoundly misreads the history of the 1960s.

Moving beyond civil rights, how could anybody claim that resistance through violence
doesn't succeed? What about the American revolution, or the Irish war for independence,
or any number of other revolutions that led to the establishment of existing nations?

Also, is this story going to look at the physical violence (assault and battery) perpetrated by HOAs against homeowners, or just by homeowners against HOAs? I'm sure Shu and the Professor have some stories about that.

Anonymous said...

After committing his final murder in 1991, serial killer Denis Rader, aka "The BTK Killer" ("Bind, Torture, Kill"), "started working as a Park City compliance supervisor in 1991. In his new position, Rader was known to be a stickler for the rules. He measured the height of people’s lawns and chased stray animals while toting a tranquilizer gun. According to reports, Rader took pleasure in exerting his limited authority over his neighbors and other members of the community."